The trade show industry is beginning to show signs of life again! But it won’t be as easy as flipping a switch to bring things back all at once.
- How the new Exhibitions & Conferences Alliance is advocating for the industry
- How vendors and venues may ramp up the workforce as needed
- What might (or might not) be required to attend trade shows and events
- What financial relief might be on the horizon
Here are links to topics mentioned during the interview:
- Which convention centers are open?
- New report puts industry damage in perspective
- Exhibitions & Conferences Alliance formed
- Can vaccines be mandated for meetings?
- COVID-19 tracing technology
- USTA proposes incentives to jumpstart events
- Here’s where you can watch the entire Virtual Lunch broadcast
About Jim Wurm
In his 35 plus years of trade show marketing and management, Jim Wurm has worked on both the show management and exhibit services side of the business.
He has launched and organized trade shows throughout the U.S. and in Europe, as has worked for I&D (now Nth Degree) as Director of Marketing and National Sales Manager. Jim has created and managed his own trade shows (CleanRooms and CleanRooms Europa), and has served as Group Director of High Tech shows for Miller Freeman, Inc.(at the time, the third largest show organizer in the world).
Most recently, Jim has utilized his unique trade show experiences for the development and management of the Exhibitor Appointed Contractor Association (EACA), a trade show industry association dedicated to “raising the level of service excellence on the showfloor.”
[00:00:00.780] - Marlys Arnold
You're listening to the Trade Show Insights podcast, Season 16, Episode four.
[00:00:19.880] - Marlys Arnold
I'm your host, an exhibit marketing strategist, Marlys Arnold bringing you tools to improve your exhibit results on today's episode, brought to you by the Exhibit Marketers Cafe, we've got a rebroadcast of our virtual lunch with Jim Wurm sharing kind of a state of the industry report and where trade shows go from here.
[00:01:02.570] - Marlys Arnold
Probably if you've been around the industry for any length of time, you probably are familiar with Jim Wurm. You've probably heard him speak. You probably have met him at an event. But in case you don't know, Jim, he's had over 35 plus years of trade show marketing and management experience. He's worked on the show management and the exhibit services side of the business. He's launched and organized trade shows throughout the US and in Europe. And he created and managed some of his own shows. And now he actually utilizes his unique trade show experiences for development and management of the Exhibitor Appointed Contractor Association, or EACA, a trade show industry association dedicated to raising the level of service excellence on the show floor. So, Jim, welcome to Virtual Lunch, and we are very eager to hear your insights of what's going on and how the industry is reopening.
[00:01:58.430] - Jim Wurm
Well, thank you, Marlys Appreciate being here and enjoy an opportunity to chat about our industry. Obviously, we've all been doing that a lot since last March, chatting about what's going to happen and when. I don't think any of us would have predicted that February at this point, we would still be wondering when things are going to start to reopen again. And that's that's obviously been a huge hardship for so many in our industry.
[00:02:26.690] - Marlys Arnold
Well, and it has been. And I actually let me switch over here. I came across this infographic from EDPA and so basically 90 percent loss of full time employees. And so it's just been, you know, the average of only 10 percent of the previous staff is still at a lot of these companies. Six point six million trade show and exhibition workers remain unemployed. Over nine thousand B2B events were canceled and 80 percent of those are small businesses. So it's you know, the impact has just been incredible. And and the one thing that I keep forgetting, because I mean, I'm so entrenched in this industry is people outside our industry really don't have any idea because the overall unemployment has gone way back down. And so I know like a lot of my friends can't understand why, you know, we're still. You know, things aren't back to normal because for them, their only thing is they just want to get out of the house. So talk a little bit more about I know some of the shows are starting to reopen.
[00:03:37.310] - Marlys Arnold
I know Surf Expo held last month in Orlando. I know there's been a number of things held in Orlando. What are some of the other shows that are that you've heard about that are starting to come back? What what are some of the the rumblings, I guess you're hearing about when shows will be get up and going again?
[00:03:54.590] - Jim Wurm
Yeah. Let me start first, though, with the other point that you were making about the fact that our industry has been so hard hit and outside of those of us that do what we do, there's very little understanding of what goes on in the events industry. And recently I was talking to some of our colleagues in the industry that have been working over the last year trying to get the attention of the federal government related to those numbers that you just shared. You know, obviously, there's a heightened awareness from the very beginning how the pandemic hurt and impacted airline industry and the hotel industry, and the restaurant industry and how they're suffering. And very little understanding at all of how our industry is the engine for all those other three.
[00:04:44.690] - Jim Wurm
You know, our our industry is five times the size of the automotive industry. And when the automotive industry, you know, back in the recession was hard hit, Congress quickly reacted for a bailout program for those folks,
[00:04:59.720] - Marlys Arnold
[00:04:59.720] - Jim Wurm
And saved the industry. So it's one of those things that I think first on the list about the reopening process is not only when events are going to come back, but what's going to be left standing after this is done. And that's what the work of the all those other efforts like that Go Live Together and the Live Events Coalition and all that, it's just have been trying to gain the attention of those that can provide some relief in our federal government for folks that have been out of work really for a year. And if it would be all right, I'd like to start with the more recent development. There is the Exhibitions and Conferences Alliance, which is sort of an outgrowth of what was known as the Go Life Together effort.
[00:05:47.390] - Jim Wurm
The Exhibitions and Conferences Alliance is just that. It's going to be an alliance of existing associations. It's not going to be another industry association. It's going to be an alliance of those with the long term, long range goal of keeping a consistent presence in Washington, D.C. among our federal representatives such that they understand better what our industry is about and maybe some of the languaging that we've been using in the past hasn't served us well. That trade shows and conventions over the years decades has sometimes had the reputation of being the kind of boondoggle type of events that that may not have the full support of certain companies that that could potentially exhibit, because they they see it as just being a glad handing party atmosphere and that maybe we would be better off as an industry describing ourselves as business events, which is what they are,
[00:06:52.340] - Marlys Arnold
[00:06:52.340] - Jim Wurm
Events that generate business, that fuel the economy, that drive marketplaces and markets. I think that that's something that we will have to take a look at. But the the main goals of the the Exhibitions and Conferences Alliance is to maintain a consistent presence there. And part of that first thing that they've done is to hire a VP of government affairs, a full time person who will be working with other players in the marketplace, because lots of associations also have lobbyists in Washington, D.C. So this individual who by the name his name is Tommy Goodwin, who's spent come on as of last Tuesday, will be working with those other lobbyists to provide more focus to the effort to gain the kind of relief that our industry needs.
[00:07:44.600] - Jim Wurm
And and the other main goal that they're going to have is to generate individuals who will be the on then the local level, the local markets, Las Vegas and Orlando and Dallas and New York and Chicago, to be local ground level working groups, because obviously, as you as you noted, many of the decisions about which venues open and when, have been based on a number of different factors, usually it's based on the state level officials, the elected officials and the health officials in determining what they feel is an appropriate way to approach things.
[00:08:21.590] - Jim Wurm
And as I was just on a phone call with the chief operating officer of ASM Global that manages more than eighty nine different venues across the country. That's the first filter that they have to navigate through, which is the local politics.
[00:08:36.980] - Marlys Arnold
[00:08:37.650] - Jim Wurm
State. And beyond that, then it becomes an issue of, you know, what are the other factors that impact an event? Obviously the regional local events have a better chance of coming back first because of the the travel aspects of being able to get there easily without necessarily having flying across country or certainly not flying internationally, which is not wide open at this point. And then the other factor that we know, because we service numbers of trade shows is there their make up in terms of their ownership. If it's an independent for profit organization, they seem to be a little bit more ambitious than some of the association clients.
[00:09:21.910] - Marlys Arnold
[00:09:23.310] - Jim Wurm
Because they tend to be a little bit more conservatively oriented and have a longer decision making process than sometimes the independent organizers do.
[00:09:33.330] - Marlys Arnold
Well, and that's true. And it is interesting to see that there have been certain we have a couple of links that I want to have Alan share with us real quick. We've got one that's a TSNN TSNN article about the ECA. And so he's going to share that. And then the other one is I came across one from let's see who did it. I don't have that in my notes, but it was an article that somebody had put together with a list of all the major convention centers. And are they open? Are they not open? When are they opening? I'm not sure. I don't remember if it actually said when you know like that, it would be that that particular article would be updated as they go along. But I would hope that I bookmarked it anyway. So I'm hoping that it's something that they'll keep updated.
[00:10:25.440] - Marlys Arnold
But it is interesting. It was kind of surprising as I went through that list of convention centers that some of the the or some of the cities that I wouldn't have expected are actually starting to open up again. And then, of course, like some of the big ones, Chicago being one of the biggest, has absolutely no idea when they're going to be open again. So, you know, do you have have you heard anything else as far as, you know, what you know from your especially from your contact at ASM, what are they expecting as far as some of these cities that are still pushing back? I know because a lot of show organizers, they're trying to figure out for second half of the year, do they go, do they not go? So what is what is kind of the interpretation you're getting there?
[00:11:14.250] - Jim Wurm
Well, I guess. From a combination of factors, obviously, first factor being the availability of the venue.
[00:11:23.040] - Marlys Arnold
[00:11:23.720] - Jim Wurm
And it varies depending on location. Obviously, Orlando has been pretty wide open. Texas has been fairly wide open. Those kinds of facilities have easier pathways to events, cities like Chicago, not as obviously on the sort of the other end of the spectrum from that. So that's that's the first aspect of the reopening process. But the other is, is going to be the time frame it takes for organizers to pull events together because they don't happen in a vacuum. They don't happen overnight. And that's that's the challenge. And I had a conversation with a number of organizers last week about that very topic. And having organized events myself, I know what the typical time frame involved in putting together a reasonable event is. But having said that, I mean, two examples of events that we work with. One is NAFEM, the National Association of Food Equipment Managers taking place typically is scheduled February every other year. They had some great foresight because as of last May, they move their dates from February this year to the end of August, which certainly gives them more breathing room.
[00:12:42.980] - Jim Wurm
And my contact there said that at this point, they're 50 percent booked in terms of exhibitor participation, which they're pretty pleased with.
[00:12:51.500] - Marlys Arnold
[00:12:52.670] - Jim Wurm
Particularly in an industry like food equipment where the audience is made up of obviously restaurants as well as institutional facilities and people like that. That industry has been pretty hard hit. They're fairly excited about the opportunity to have the event this year. But, you know, it's still the kind of thing where they're sort of withholding their final go no go decision until late May or early June. But they have that that kind of set because, you know, having 50 percent exhibit of rebooking is great. But it's also the other side of the coin is what kind of audience will they expect to make it worthwhile for those exhibitors. ...did a survey of their exhibitors. That's a show that's late November, early December, every year after Thanksgiving. How many of their exhibitors are interested in participating? Eighty one percent said that they're they're looking forward to coming. So only 19 percent said that they didn't think they could make it this year. So,
[00:13:56.810] - Marlys Arnold
That's really interesting because that's a much higher percentage than what I've been hearing from a lot of other shows. So that's but it's also really late in the year. I know that's another thing that's going to be an issue is because, like you said, a lot of the February, March, April shows are pushing back to August, September. So it's going to start to get to get to be a crunch time because, you know, there's not going to be enough venues to go around for a lot of these events to happen. So I think second half of the year is going to get going to be quite interesting on a lot of levels.
[00:14:26.383] - Jim Wurm
Yeah. It's going to be very busy, in fact that we've already noticed that our our calendar is usually pretty tame in August and September this year on potential events. It's very crowded.
[00:14:40.100] - Marlys Arnold
Yeah, I bet. Well, I want to shift gears a little bit and just talk about the logistics of how this is all going to happen. I mean, because obviously we talked about there's still a huge number of people in the industry that are still either on furlough or, you know, let's face it, I know from talking to a lot of my friends, a lot of them have just left the industry because they had to go get a job elsewhere. So how how are we going to ramp back up with the workforce? I mean, is there have you heard anything as far as what companies are doing to try to to try to get prepared or how they're going to bring people back on board?
[00:15:17.640] - Jim Wurm
Yeah, at least from the standpoint of I can speak to of our members, those that are in the capacity of an exhibitor appointed contractor, whether it be a company that provides labor services or AV, specialty furnishings, specialty carpet, those kinds of things. You know, while they have lots of folks that are furloughed and have been furloughed for long periods of time, one of the things they do on a regular basis is, is to do events like this where they reach out to their folks and and check in with them to see how they're doing and try to find ways to keep their spirits up, to manage their motivation at some level and and make sure that they have an understanding of what's going to be available when the the events do start to reopen.
[00:15:59.930] - Jim Wurm
But having said that, many are aware that there's a huge probability that they may be short staffed when the events come back. So within our membership, we're already discussing ways in which our members can work in collaboration in those situations. To do some resource sharing so that if if one particular member company gets more work in a city than they can handle with the staff that's available, they'll reach out to one of our other members to say, hey, I've got work. If you have people that are still furloughed or on the bench and would like to generate some income, we have some work for them. So there'll be a lot of that going on. I'm pretty sure lots of conversations about sharing. One of the things that we recognize, too, might help to mitigate that demand is that when events do come back, there's a pretty solid thought that they're not going to come back at 100 percent of what they typically were in the past.
[00:17:01.140] - Marlys Arnold
[00:17:02.230] - Jim Wurm
The amount of participation will help to mitigate the demand on the resources that are available too.
[00:17:10.300] - Marlys Arnold
Well, and that's a good point, I mean, like you said, if they're looking at 50 to 75 percent of the exhibits that they would have had, there'll be less set up. There'll be less logistics as far as the attendees, because I know that even though the exhibits may be coming back, the number of attendees is not going to be nearly as high as it was. And it's interesting because from what I've been hearing, a lot of it's going to be possibly and I want to hear what you've heard, smaller companies both exhibiting and also attending, because a lot of the big companies still have the travel restrictions in place. So do you foresee that it's going to be a lot of the exhibits going forward may be more the smaller exhibitors than the large ones?
[00:17:53.030] - Jim Wurm
I don't think I haven't heard anything specifically about that, but I have heard that the studies were conducted. I know Exhibitor Live did a study where they reached out to some twenty four hundred exhibit marketers and that there were lots of travel restrictions available. But, you know, part of part of this story we've seen before, after 9/11, there was a slower roll out of events and slower levels of participation. Travel restrictions were put in place after 9/11 for safety reasons for employees after the 2008 recession. The same thing happened because of economic concerns and and large companies dispensing with what they call discretionary travel just because they were looking to secure their economic futures. And I think we'll see that again. It's a pretty consistent reaction to events like this. And this one's been obviously more extreme than those other two that I mentioned. So I imagine we'll see some level of travel restrictions stay in place. But one of the things that that we will also, I think, enjoy those that do participate is while the attendance numbers may not be what is expected. One of the things that folks that do attend as an exhibitor will count on is that the quality of those interactions is going to be much better because those that do show up obviously are going to be pretty seriously interested in doing business.
[00:19:23.170] - Marlys Arnold
And that is what I've been hearing from the shows that have been starting to happen already. I know I heard from some of the exhibitors at SURF Expo that they felt like that they got a really good return on their investment this year, even though the crowd was, I think, only a third of the size, the usual size. So, you know, that is, you know, and that's something I would try to tell exhibitors for years. It's not about the numbers. It's about how many quality people are. Quality leads are walking the show floor. So I think that will be in one way it'll be a good thing because it'll narrow the field to the people that are really the most serious, because the people that are just walking the aisles, collecting freebies aren't going to be coming.
[00:20:00.130] - Jim Wurm
[00:20:00.610] - Marlys Arnold
At least for now. So I want to talk about a couple of other things that you kind of have. Well, we haven't really discussed them yet, but we've kind of one of the big I think elephants in the room is the whole vaccine issue, and I think that's one reason why everybody's pushing back, as you know, until the vaccines get distributed. But what are you hearing as far as do you think there's going to be a lot of shows that are going to require, like the vaccine passport or proof of vaccine for people to come? Or is that something that's really been discussed so far?
[00:20:36.510] - Jim Wurm
Well, it's definitely a question that's been out there and it's continuing to circulate, but it's a bit early in the process to really know what will happen. But one of the factors that might influence that decision making was a recent study that I became aware of. You mentioned SURF Expo a couple of times in the last week or the week before last, I should say. There was a sort of co-location of events in Orlando around MAGIC, the MAGIC industry or the garment industries co-location, which included organizers from Informa and Tarsus and Reed they decided to pool funds to do an experimental approach to rapid test. Everybody that wanted to attend the meeting certainly wasn't economically feasible to do on an ongoing basis. The costs are as much as one hundred dollars a person to do.
[00:21:41.850] - Marlys Arnold
[00:21:42.600] - Jim Wurm
So for large events, that would be prohibitive. The other thing was that. It took up a lot of space, an entire hall was dedicated to the testing process, the rapid test take about 15 minutes. But the interesting outcome in Orlando was that they looked at the results of Surf Expo, which didn't have any kind of rapid testing protocol, but did have obviously all the GBAC safety protocols in place, mask wearing, distancing, all those kinds of things. And then the MAGIC test with rapid testing and the GBAC, the the results in terms of any kind of cases that that appeared, which was less than a half percent, were the same for both shows
[00:22:31.230] - Marlys Arnold
[00:22:31.230] - Jim Wurm
And rapid testing didn't improve the level of safety. One would tend to infer that, you know, having had the vaccine probably would be about the same. And so, you know, my my personal feeling since this all began is that if there was a a national requirement that people masked when they went into public places, that we probably could have had events come back way sooner. But since there wasn't any kind of a national agreement and it's been a state by state, location by location, determination, that's why we are where we are today. But as far as whether there will be vaccines required, evidence of negative testing required, I think that as long as people follow the GBAC safety protocols, hopefully that information becomes more widely known and widely agreed to because I think that's going to be the way that we'll be doing events once we do start to open up again.
[00:23:30.930] - Marlys Arnold
And have you heard what, like I know most of the major centers have already got their GBAC certification. Have you heard nationwide how many convention centers are already GBAC?
[00:23:41.910] - Jim Wurm
I don't have that specific detail in terms of those numbers, but I know that the major facilities have all done that because there are just so many factors involved. And that's going to be the real issue, right, in terms of how we reopen is, how and when we communicate that it's safe for us to do, because that's that's the real hangup, right? It's that we've been classified as a mass gathering. Our industry has been classified as a mass gathering. Well, every time I go into a Costco to shop, I see mass gathering that that people don't have much concern about. Or if you go to an airport when you do travel like over the holidays, those were mass gatherings that didn't get impeded in any way. So hopefully the the effort that's been in place for some time about how events can be done safely will start to catch on, and that those that have restrictions around, you know, large gatherings will recognize that business events are a lot more of a controlled environment than they think.
[00:24:49.660] - Marlys Arnold
Well, and it's good to know that the percentages are staying really low of any issues at the events that are happening because, you know, based on how people have not exactly been following the protocols in general throughout society, it's good to know that they haven't had a lot of problems that at the events that the, you know, the trade shows that have been happening, because that was one thing I was concerned about in the beginning, because, you know, who wants to be the one that's the bouncer that's kicking people out for their bad behavior or whatever? One last thing I do want to just see if you have any insights on. I came across an article. The U.S. Travel Association is calling for meeting t travel and meeting tax credits to offset the cost of attending or hosting. Have you heard much about that? Is is that gaining any traction? Do you think that's something that's going to happen?
[00:25:46.030] - Jim Wurm
Yeah, that's probably a little bit down the road. There are lots of other things I think that are in line before that, the one that I think will come up even before that is the is the cleaning tax credit that's certainly open for venues and organizers, because obviously there's another level of requirement there that they didn't haven't had before. Facilities have had to retrofit their air handling systems such that they could increase the amount of airflow to to make sure that any contagions that are in the in the air get eliminated as quickly as possible. Every facility has had to invest, and as well as the general service contractors, invest in cleaning solutions that will be used on a daily basis. I know that recently one of the large general contractors, I think it was GES, came across a cleaning solution that it will provide a level of safety for 90 days once it's used, which
[00:26:47.420] - Marlys Arnold
[00:26:47.880] - Jim Wurm
Is a good thing. So there's those kinds of things. And the fact that there's a there's a cleaning credit coalition led by the International Sanitary Supply Association that's done some calculations that the costs for both the cleaning materials and the training required to use those can be as much as five thousand dollars per employee.
[00:27:08.631] - Marlys Arnold
[00:27:09.180] - Jim Wurm
So, yeah, so the large organizations have a significant investment in creating the kind of safety that we all want to see when events come back. And so that type of credit, I think, will come along first. Obviously, if there is a tax credit for participation costs, for travel costs to go to events, that would be terrific. But of late, the main things that are on the on the front burner these days are that the Biden administration's one point nine trillion dollar debt relief package, which includes some specific funding for folks in the event industry. There's an amendment that was passed by congresswoman from Nevada, Cortez Masto. And I forget the Republican cosigner of that where he was from. But anyway, there is some specific language starting to find its way into these bills for our industry, which I think is pretty important. The other one that's right behind that on the discussion list is the shuttered venues, operating grants,
[00:28:15.780] - Marlys Arnold
[00:28:15.780] - Jim Wurm
Which it was mostly about arenas and theaters. But there's been effort to try to also include convention facilities, venues that will also benefit, and not just the venue itself, but those people that make their living. Working in those venues has been part of the effort that's that's been going on from a lobbying perspective these days.
[00:28:38.280] - Marlys Arnold
And I thought because I had read an article about that recently, too, and I thought that was really great, that it was expanded beyond just the venue itself, because, like you said, the ripple effect is so broad. And one of the other stats that I came across was that basically our industry lost three times more jobs than the next industry behind, you know, the number two industry below us. So it really is. It's such a massive, broad scope. And so it's exciting to see that there actually are some things, some processes that are happening and some advocacy that's happening. So, Jim, thank you so much. Any any final things, any tidbits that you've heard about that we haven't that we haven't covered so far?
[00:29:28.020] - Jim Wurm
Well, the only other thing you mentioned in your news when you opened up Marlys was the mention of hybrid events. And I think that one of the outcomes I tried to do that at the end of every conversation I have with folks like this, whether they be from the venue side of the industry or the organizers side or the contractor side, or or even the exhibitors and the display producers is is there a silver lining that might come out of all of this? And I think that the fact that many events have had to embrace virtual as only sort of place to go as a means of serving their markets is potentially a good thing and that we might see some hybrid events coming up. Obviously, the the ones that have been undertaken thus far haven't really delivered the type of return that exhibitors are looking for. And I think that only makes sense because we're not skilled in that practice. Right. We're making that up as we go along as an industry. Folks haven't built hybrid events before. The costs are also pretty significant because I think moving forward and you work with exhibitors all the time, that. Try to increase their their success at the live face to face event, but that's still not something that that every company does on a on an excellent level. Many are still in that learning curve. So the learning curve for for the virtual process is even going to be steeper. I believe that, you know, the the more savvy companies will actually have a two pronged approach moving forward approach on how to receive and engage the face to face prospect. And they'll need an entirely different strategy on how to engage and receive and engage that that virtual attendee, because if they don't, they're just going to miss out.
[00:31:26.900] - Jim Wurm
As far as the going rogue thing. I don't know that that's that's something that I would call a trend, because even before the pandemic, there were lots of companies doing their own events and those were based on issues around cost. The cost of material handling or the cost of all the other expenses were so high that many companies did already. And we we did a study years ago with CMOs of Fortune 500 companies. Forty five percent of those companies all had their own events for those reasons. So I don't think it's a it's a burgeoning trend that's just starting now. And it's been something that's been in place for quite some time. And yeah, if there isn't a good solution offered up for a live event engagement or a virtual engagement that's that's fulfilling, fruitful and delivers value. Yeah. Then more companies might do it. But there's already a pretty good trend going on for that very thing.
[00:32:28.340] - Marlys Arnold
Well, and I think the comment that Rama had said about if if they don't see better engagement on the virtual side, they're going to do something else because it's just, you know, and that's one thing I have seen, sadly, is so few shows did a good job of transitioning to virtual on the exhibitor side. And that's probably a topic for a whole other day and actually a whole other whole the project I'm working on. But, you know, that is the thing, like you said, as they as we move to hybrid, it's going to be the exhibitors are going to need to see the value on both sides, the face to face and on the virtual side. And I think the shows that figure it out and do a good job of keeping their exhibitors happy on both sides, they're going to have a much stronger future than the shows that. Let's face it, some of them have flat out not tried that last year.
[00:33:22.530] - Jim Wurm
I mean, one of those factors that I have heard about in terms of the embracement embracing virtual is that numbers of venues are considering adding broadcast studios to their facilities. But like I said, those those that haven't tried, I imagine there are many that have considered virtual, but the upfront costs are so significant that it's hard numbers of them to justify the expense.
[00:33:48.920] - Marlys Arnold
Well, and you mentioned the broadcast studios, I know that there's been several convention centers that have already put in place virtual studios and they're already starting to use them during this time until they they can start getting the physical shows back. But but, yeah, it's it's going to be interesting to see how things come together. And and I'm predicting that there's going to be shows that are going to be merging together to try to put on their events. And so lots of different things. But anyway, as I said before, I've got another project in the works I'll be sharing soon. So everybody hang on. So, Jim, thank you so much. It's always great to talk to you because you really you have your ear to the ground and you know exactly what's going on in the industry. And I really appreciate that.
[00:34:32.990] - Marlys Arnold
Thank you, Jim. You can find all the links mentioned during our interview in this episode, show notes at TradeShowInsights.com. And if you'd like to join us for an upcoming virtual lunch, you'll find info on that at ExhibitMarketersCafe.com/lunch.
[00:35:06.160] - Marlys Arnold
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[00:35:40.930] - Marlys Arnold
To learn more, please see the link in the sidebar. The show notes at TradeShowInsights.com. Well, that's it for this episode of Trade Show Insights. Be sure to check out our show notes and archives at TradeShowInsights.com. You can also connect with me using the social media links or the contact page on the site. I'm Marlys Arnold. Thanks for listening and be sure to join us next time for more tools to improve your exhibit results.
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