Fresh Perspectives on Trade Show ROI & Impact

Marlys Arnold [00:00:00]: You're listening to the Trade Show Insights podcast season 20 episode five. I'm your host and exhibit marketing strategist, Marlys Arnold, bringing you tools to improve your exhibit results. On today's episode, brought to you by the Exhibit Marketer's Cafe, we're diving into the topic of ROI and how both exhibitors and show organizers can put it into context and really boost those overall results. Well, I am excited today because I'm having one of my trade show BFFs here on trade show insights, Rich Vallaster. And, we do we do these calls every so often. I mean, we kinda say quarterly, but, you know, sometimes just life gets in the way, and we don't get together as often as we like. But we talk about all different kinds of where the industry is going, what's happening, what's hot, all that kind of stuff. I've had Rich on the podcast once before, but, I wanted to have him back.

Marlys Arnold [00:01:34]: We're gonna talk about some different things, some some things that are definitely hot in the industry right now, but I wanna give him a formal induct introduction for those of you who don't know him. Rich Vallaster is the director of industry relations and community engagement at Personify, and he's also known as the Trade Show Wonk. He's currently serving as the Center for Exhibition Industry Research Council chair, and he's also an active member of the International Association of Exhibitions and Events or IAEE and the American Society of Association Executives, ASAE. He frequently speaks at association two association organizers, exhibitors, and attendees at events such as IAEE's Expo Expo, and he also teaches in the CEM program as well. And one of my favorite things, he also wrote the foreword for the updated edition of Build a Better Trade Show Image.

Rich Vallaster [00:02:33]: Well, thank you for having me, and and well done on all those acronyms and and getting all that out in one fell swoop. So I appreciate that.

Marlys Arnold [00:02:40]: Yeah. You know, it's funny. It's like there's all the industry acronyms. I had somebody ask me I I can't even remember what it was. Somebody asked me just the other day, well, what does blah blah blah stand for? And I'm like, let me think about that. I you know, because you refer to them all the time with the acronyms, and it's like, what is the actual name of that association?

Rich Vallaster [00:02:58]: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's it. Yeah. Sometimes you're like, what does the one letter in this stand for? Because, yeah, we say it in such a in such a way. So yeah. No. Well, thanks again for having me.

Rich Vallaster [00:03:07]: Excited to be back. And and like you said, I always enjoy our banter and chats and, you know, what we see on the front line. So

Marlys Arnold [00:03:14]: Yeah. Yeah. So this is kind of a you know, it's gonna be kind of a our typical flow of how we have a conversation and everybody else just kinda gets to be a fly on the wall. But, you you've had a couple of recent articles in TSNN, and, you know, I think that we need to really address some of these issues. So one of them and I know this was this is really kind of a controversial one that you wrote. Are trade shows worth it? And I know you were taking a specific approach on that, talking about what what was your angle on that?

Rich Vallaster [00:03:51]: Well, really, you know, thinking about we work with so many exhibitors and sponsoring companies that are backed by private equity, and, that really creates a different angle that I don't think most people understand. So I wanted to bring that perspective. And I will leave nameless how that article got started because it was born out of frustration of working with a particular association. But I but I realized I've got so much feedback on that article. Again, controversial, but I think it's really important to think about this subset of your exhibitors and sponsors.

Marlys Arnold [00:04:24]: Well and, honestly, you know, you wrote it for the private equity angle, but I think these days, especially, you know, with with the talk of tariffs and rising costs, and, of course, then there's the whole issue of all the, you know, back end stuff that keeps going up like drayage and

Rich Vallaster [00:04:43]: Yeah.

Marlys Arnold [00:04:43]: Show services and all that. So, I mean, really, it's becoming a question for a lot of exhibitors. And so I think we need to talk about, you know, obviously, trade shows need to be proving their ROI in order for people to keep exhibiting, both from an exhibitor perspective and from a show organizer perspective. If if the ROI is not there, then, you know, our our industry is gonna start, what do I wanna say, crumbling?

Rich Vallaster [00:05:15]: Struggling? Yeah. I mean, well, and I think that's you know, even that ROI term is, you know, what does that really mean? And, you know, when I sat down and wrote that, it was it was thinking that, you know, one, ROI can mean something different for every company True. Sponsoring. And that's tough. And that's, I think, the job on the show organizer and, you know, we like to think that we just sort of do one for all. And I think we're gonna have to start to have, you know, more and more conversations with what does ROI look for you? And as in your company, your sponsorship, your exhibiting. And then and, again, I I had a hard time writing. I'm a trade show guy by heart.

Rich Vallaster [00:05:53]: And then to basically, you know, pose that question, but I also, you know, we exhibit as a company at events, you know, all the time, and I'm the one making the final budget call on events. And I talk about measuring the immeasurable, and sometimes it's really hard to say, you know, how can I look at this in a way that, you know, other than leads or other than certain things that make it really easy on a spreadsheet? You know? How do you measure brand awareness? How do you measure engagement with you know? And and those are things that are a lot harder to put on a spreadsheet, but more and more companies, whether they're PE backed or not, are looking for hard numbers to say, per dollar, I got this. And that's tough.

Marlys Arnold [00:06:34]: Yeah. Well and I think it's it's also a challenge because, you know, the the people who are on the front lines who are actually involved in going to the shows, working the shows, dealing with the leads, all that kind of stuff are not necessarily the ones that are in the accounting office that are, you know, tabulating all of these kinds of things. So sometimes there's a breakdown, I think, between them being able to demonstrate, you know, hey. This is what we got out of this trade show. This is why it's worth it to us. And then this other, you know, accounting person seeing that's like, well, we're not seeing the the, you know, apples to oranges, you know, the the a to z following the money, basically. You know, there's the issue of, you know, long sales cycles. You know, you can't and I always tell exhibitors, you can't expect to see ROI in the first two weeks after a show.

Marlys Arnold [00:07:26]: It's just not realistic. Unless you're at a show and you're actually physically selling products at the show. That's different. But if you're there to get leads or build brand awareness or introduce a new product or all that because you're not gonna see results in the first two weeks. You're not even gonna see results necessarily in the first couple of months. And so it's really hard for the the trade show team to prove their ROI. And, you know, and sometimes it's even lifetime value. It's like, okay.

Marlys Arnold [00:07:53]: We met this person at, you know, ABC Show 2024, and, you know, by, you know, 2030, they've produced x million dollars worth of business. But, you know, the again, the accounting person doesn't look at it like that. So what what do you how do you try to justify the ROI and measure in that way?

Rich Vallaster [00:08:16]: Yeah. I mean, that you you brought it. Right? There's there's there's so many ways to measure it. And, unfortunately, I think for most organizers, you know, the the window for which we we judge success or we, you know, have a post event meeting is too quick. Yeah. And, you know, not only like you said, not only not measuring the lifetime value, we're we're measuring I mean, I I think, you know, part of that article was written around too how, again, not just private equity companies, but, you know, they're looking at if I spend a marketing dollar today, you know, how quickly am I gonna get three back, five back, 10 back? Mhmm. You know? Because I spent the dollar today. I spent it this year.

Rich Vallaster [00:08:55]: I wanna know how quickly into your point, sales cycles. And and so that's really hard to say. You know, when you look at something like, we all face this in the trade show business, well, pay per clicks ad, you know, I spent 68¢, and I knew right away because they clicked on a demo form or whatever the outcome is. It's easier to your point that the the beam counters, the, you know, the folks that are looking at the spreadsheet, it's a much easier like you said, it's a journey. Right? They did this. They did this and this, and it happened in such a shorter window. So when I look at trade shows, you know, you just have to start looking at other factors. You know, how many clients did we engage with? How many prospects we engage with? How much how much revenue do they represent as a current client that we got to engage in person? And, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Rich Vallaster [00:09:38]: We have to start to put, you know, more context. And even that context sometimes isn't exciting because the marketing dollar, you know, isn't gonna make, like you said, three tomorrow. And and I think that's harder where there are other elements out there that make it quicker. And, again, I am no way suggesting that that we're going away. I think we'll continue to grow, but we'll have to sort of talk to exhibitors and understand, like, what are how are they measuring it and then set to your point realistic expectations.

Marlys Arnold [00:10:09]: Yeah. Well and I think that that's a big part of it too is that exhibitors go into it with unrealistic expectations. You know, they think that you know, because, you know you know, I talk to exhibitors all the time, and they always expect that, oh, boy. We're gonna go to the show, and it's like it it it's almost like they think it's like a magic genie lamp. You know? It's like, oh, we're gonna go to the show and just magically, our business is gonna three x, five x, 10 x. You know? And it's like, no. It's not it's not an it's not like the Staples easy button. You know? It's like

Rich Vallaster [00:10:43]: Well and and it it's, you know, to your point, you know, I often talk. I mean, I have a trade show boot camp. I take all our sales team through and, you know, and you're always inspiration. And and and and I point to you too because you you talk to so many. I I've even taken it now even with our own teams to say, like, you know, at the end of the day, when we go back and recap and say, like, you know, hey. If if we're just looking solely at something like leads, if that's our success measure, it shouldn't be the only success measure, obviously.

Marlys Arnold [00:11:11]: Right.

Rich Vallaster [00:11:12]: But if you were to divide that over the cost of even what did it cost to to just exhibit? You know, not not all the hard not all the cost of the human you know, like, when you start to say you divide that by cost per lead, and sometimes people go, oh, you know? And now you see why too. I go back, and so some of that historical data I show people, I'm like, now you understand why it's so important to engage at the booth and not wander off and not, you know, do all the things that it, as in your book, talk about that the exhibiters make. But it's but there's more and more pressure on both sides to train that team to say, hey. You've got to go and activate at this show or you're not gonna be successful. And success isn't in always on a spreadsheet and success isn't the next day.

Marlys Arnold [00:11:57]: Yeah. And, you know, that's the thing. It's like, I think a lot of it is just that they don't understand. They don't have a full picture of what all of these what all of the things that they're doing really mean. You know? I can remember back way back years ago when I was doing training for a national sales meeting for a company, and they were telling me you know, I said, okay. So what's your goal? They were going to this huge, you know, the big, you know, one show of the year that's, like, everybody's there. And so I said, you know, what's your goal for the show? How many leads do you wanna get? And they were like, oh, well, you know, we've been we've been going to the show forever. Everybody knows us, and, you know, we just kinda go to connect and, you know, make sure we stay in front of people and stuff.

Marlys Arnold [00:12:45]: And I'm like, okay. Wait a minute. You're gonna spend a quarter of a million dollars to go, and you don't have a goal? You know, you you're just there because everybody else is there. And so once they really started to unpack that, then they set a goal, and then they actually exceeded their goal at the show. But because they didn't have focus and they were just kinda like, oh, yeah. Well, we just go and, you know, this is kinda like our reconnect with everybody. You know? Like, the you know, we always laugh about it. It's like going to your high school reunion, you know, when you go to a trade show.

Marlys Arnold [00:13:17]: But it's like, if you don't have a purpose and you don't have a goal, how are you ever gonna have any clue whether you actually were successful or not?

Rich Vallaster [00:13:26]: Well and and if you're not it is really funny because you you talk to a lot of exhibitors and they don't have a goal or they don't have a really defined goal. The organizations and the companies are gonna start to create those goals for you. You know? And they're gonna start to say, yeah. If I invest x in this show, I expect y to come out. And so it is better it is better for people to start thinking of those goals than because someone else on the on the in on the spreadsheet side of the business is gonna say, okay. We've now decided what we expect from you.

Marlys Arnold [00:13:57]: Yeah. And it may not it may or may not be in line with with Yeah.

Rich Vallaster [00:14:01]: It may not align with reality.

Marlys Arnold [00:14:03]: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Well, I think another piece of it is too because a lot of companies, they don't have a really good system to track. You know, we talked about how it's it's not instant. It's a long term ROI. And if they don't have a system where they can really track that, you don't have tags in their CRM or whatever where they can see, oh, look.

Marlys Arnold [00:14:24]: This you know, we just won this, you know, $2,000,000 contract, but this is a contact that we made at the 2024 ABC Expo or whatever. You know? Then they can see, oh, yeah. This is paying off over time.

Rich Vallaster [00:14:38]: Well, and that that you know, we look at that as influence as well. Like, you know, the trade show, you know, may or may not have been the first time you met them. It's great if it is. You know? But there may be influences along the way. Like, you know, hey. We connected with them in '23. We saw them again in '24. And, you know, finally in '25, this is when it really hit for us.

Rich Vallaster [00:14:58]: And so that's a Yeah. You know, a good point to think about that, you know, events can have a lot of influence and that may take over time. And if you don't have the rock proper tools to say, wow. We engaged with this one prospect here, here, here, here, and here. I think that's where we'll find all of our marketing efforts, you know, are different touch points. And and that's again, it it's a sophistication of level that either you start to strive towards or someone on the Excel side of the business is gonna, you know, dictate that for you.

Marlys Arnold [00:15:28]: Yeah. Well, and even things like, you know, oh, we met them at the 2023 show, and then they attended a couple of our webinars that we hosted. And then, you know, then they were at the '24. You know, they came to our booth again '24 or whatever. So you can, like, see all of those connecting points of what's, you know, driving this person down the road to become a customer or to become a bigger customer. So kinda let's flip and talk about what what are some of the things that show organizers could do to help their exhibitors. Because I think that, you know, show organizers and you and I have had this conversation many times, but a lot of show organizers are like, you know, they take the check and say thank you, and that's about the end of the conversation with their exhibitors sometimes. So what could they do to really help their exhibitors?

Rich Vallaster [00:16:16]: You know, I mean, one, it starts with not always asking for money. You know? I think it's important to, you know, build those relationships and stay in touch. And, like, every time you reach out shouldn't be about money. Mhmm. You know? Because then you're known for that. You know? The more you can start to think about, like, you know, what what what is their ROI? What what are they looking for? Because then you're gonna know, you know, can you even deliver on that? Do you need to reset expectations? You know, do you need to help them and say, well, you know, if that's what you're trying to accomplish, let me recommend this or that. You may guide them into other opportunities

Marlys Arnold [00:16:47]: or something. Exactly.

Rich Vallaster [00:16:49]: You know? But if you don't ask those questions, you're not gonna know the answer. You're just gonna most likely when they don't renew or rebook, you're like, why didn't they come back? Well, we didn't meet their goals. Whether they were reasonable or not, if you didn't have a chance to guide it. I think the other big thing I'm seeing is that, you know, it shows, you know, like, you see product tariffs, tariffs and cost increases and, know, those sort of things. I mean, I I'm hearing more and more exhibitors are saying, like, you know, I was gonna go to this trade show and show this x y z merchandise or whatever it may be product. But if it's not on a boat and by now, it may get tariffs, and so I don't wanna talk about pricing. And so that's creating, I think, this fear depending on where you, you know, source product or where it is in the supply chain. You're you're a little leery to be at a trade show saying, hey.

Rich Vallaster [00:17:34]: We have this. Maybe.

Marlys Arnold [00:17:36]: Yeah. Yeah.

Rich Vallaster [00:17:38]: Or or maybe it costs this much or maybe it doesn't.

Marlys Arnold [00:17:41]: Yeah. Well and what you were talking about is helping the exhibitor see how you know, all the different ways they might be getting ROI. I had a conversation with an exhibitor recently, and he was telling me he's like, yeah. We're not sure if we're gonna go back to this show, and he was explaining why. And what as we began to talk through things a little bit, basically, what he's offering is not like a, you know, a product, a widget as, you know, something. You know, he provides a service. And so it was a lot of it was that people weren't really understanding what he did, and so they didn't come and talk to him in the booth. And I said, why don't you propose doing a session, you know, teaching a session? And it happened to be we had the conversation, like, two or three weeks before the session deadline, you know, the proposal deadline.

Marlys Arnold [00:18:30]: And I said, you need to get on this right now and submit a proposal for next year's show because I think that could really help you get in front of people. Because the people that are interested will come to your session, and then they'll be interested and they'll come back to your booth and talk to you more. And he's like, oh, I never thought of that. You know? So, again, it goes back to having that conversation with the exhibitors and helping them see, oh, if this is what you're wanting to achieve, maybe you need to consider this or, you know, being you know, having something in the new product showcase or, you know, all those kinds of things. But if the show organizer is just the oh, thank you for your check, and we'll see you in Booth Number 1015, then

Rich Vallaster [00:19:10]: Well, and that goes back to I think there's a there's a this could you know, a misunderstanding a lot on show management part when you see an exhibitor in your show and they've exhibited for fifty plus years. I mean, even five or more years.

Marlys Arnold [00:19:23]: Yeah.

Rich Vallaster [00:19:24]: The assumption is is that they figured it out. They know what they're doing. They've got it. But the person that's suddenly, you know, managing the booth presence or the head of the sales or, like you said, half the time, the people that are on the show are not the ones that book the booth. And and so there's a lot of new people in the industry or in the roles that are are making these decisions to come to your show, and we treat them like long time exhibitors and and and assume we know what they want and they what know what we know what they need and and move on versus saying, hey. You know, I may have a new contact, and I wanna reeducate you in our show. Because they're oftentimes the quickest to pull out because they're like, you know, they're you you haven't taken the opportunity to re sort of educate them about your show.

Marlys Arnold [00:20:09]: Yeah. Well yeah. And you can't assume that they just know. I mean, I've had exhibitors come up to me after a workshop and say, you know, thank you so much. I've been exhibiting not only at this show, but all kinds of shows for, like, ten years, fifteen years. Nobody's ever offered me this kind of education before. And so I think, you know, show organizers tend to think that, oh, exhibitors know what they're doing. They, you know, they do this all the time.

Marlys Arnold [00:20:33]: Maybe they offer a new exhibitor workshop for their first time exhibitors. But like you said, just because somebody's been going to you know, some company has been going to that show for twenty years doesn't mean it's been the same people for twenty years.

Rich Vallaster [00:20:46]: Yeah. Well and and, you know, back to even tariffs and cost increases in the chaotic nature of the world that we're in right now, I think the more, you know, we get show organizers can start to, you know, work with our vendors and partners and whatever to to minimize some of those impacts. You know? Whether it's, again, you know, like, there's a percent lock in increase or, you know, things that you can start to say, like, hey. We've worked hard to try the the best we can at show management on the cost we can control.

Marlys Arnold [00:21:17]: You

Rich Vallaster [00:21:17]: know? We can't control tariffs, but when you come to our show, we're gonna, you know, try to contain as much as we can. And I think the other thing that would behoove show managers I know you talk to exhibitors a lot. You know? I I tend to do it in the sales office as we do rebook. But it's the you know, I feel like there's always levers. Right? And some organizations and associations say, like, you know, we're we're always afraid to increase. Well, then, like, at some point, the Excel side of the business or association or whoever comes in. No. No.

Rich Vallaster [00:21:46]: We need to raise x amount. And since suddenly we push that lever of a price on an exhibitor, and it jumps 10%, fifteen %. And when you talk to most exhibitors, they're like, I understand prices increase. That's the reality we live in. I just can't make a jump 15%. If you had done 2% over the past five years or three over you know, do the math. That is a much more tolerable experience. Everyone expects that, but it's these associations that just wait and then push the lever too hard.

Marlys Arnold [00:22:15]: Well and like you said, the the transparency of it, it's like, you know, okay. Here's why we're increasing the price or here's here's what we're going you know? And there's always things that organizers can add to add value that doesn't really cost anything. You know? I mean, so it's like so you're gonna you gotta raise the price, but what could you you know, what other little thing can you throw in that's not gonna cost you much of anything that would be, you know, that would show the exhibitors that you care. You know?

Rich Vallaster [00:22:47]: Well, and then I I think it's a combined effort. I mean, there's moments, you know, so, you know, I hear a lot from show organizers and, you know, they're they're worried about cost too. And and I think it's where you can get creative in looking at like, I look at most show floors, you know, at the reception time, and I see show organizers that, you know, put so many bars because that's what, you know, we've done the math on one bar per x amount of people, and that's what we need. And then I walk around the floor, and there's, you know, a ton of exhibitors that they're serving their own alcohol and sometimes better choices or food or insert whatever I picked up. You know? And so that's where, like, show management's gonna say, like, hey. Let's figure out, like, how many people are already having bars? Like, this there's not more people. Can we reduce our spend on food and beverage for the reception? Because it's it's it's made up by the exhibitors that are doing it. So now Good point.

Rich Vallaster [00:23:39]: We're reducing our spend there, and we could put it towards something else. But that's I think we have sometimes we get caught in these, like, we need this, and we don't think about what's being provided in that. And then you could either cut some of that savings onto other things or better the experience.

Marlys Arnold [00:23:53]: Well and and, you know, this is one of my pet peeves, but let's spend $50,000 or even more than that on, you know, some kind of big headline entertainment for the the last night party or whatever. And it's like, okay. Realistically, how much value is that bringing you rather than spending that, say, $50,000 to actually invest in something that is going to make your show better, make your exhibitor experience better, make your attendee experience better. You know? I mean, it's like, you know, I I don't and I know show organizers always use the excuse of, oh, we bring in these big names because it gets people to register. And it's like, have you really done you know, everybody talks about data. Have you really done the data on that to see

Rich Vallaster [00:24:39]: Yeah.

Marlys Arnold [00:24:40]: You ask how many people are signing up because, you know, oh, boy. This band is playing at their at the event versus, you know, oh, we're coming for the education. Oh, we're coming to walk the show floor. Oh, we're coming for networking. You know?

Rich Vallaster [00:24:53]: And if there and if it's that less than 1% would be my guess across every show. That less than 1% is coming because you've got some big music act, you you're in the wrong business, and they're coming to the wrong show.

Marlys Arnold [00:25:05]: Yeah. Well and the thing is, you know, especially if you're in Chicago or Vegas or, you know, Orlando or or wherever, there's other entertainment to be had locally. I mean, you know, why should you pay thousands of dollars to have this headline entertainment when there's other stuff that could be happening in the city that people can go to? You don't you don't need to be you know, like you said, spend the money on an actual show floor networking, you know, experience rather than, oh, let's all go to this big concert.

Rich Vallaster [00:25:39]: Because we have. Because we always have.

Marlys Arnold [00:25:41]: That

Rich Vallaster [00:25:41]: was that's the reasons that I always hear. It's like, well, but we've always had a headliner. So what?

Marlys Arnold [00:25:47]: Yeah. So what? Why?

Rich Vallaster [00:25:49]: But you said it, and I think this leans into that conversation of, I think we also forget what people find valuable. You know? And even in sponsorships, I see more and more that, like, the thing that we think as the show organizer, the exhibitor sponsor company find valuable, it's not any longer or it was or it's changed. And so sometimes dusting off those like, you know, I think we all we all produce the prospectus or the PDF or we put them all online. We sell them all all online. Whatever it may be, we rinse and repeat, but we don't know if is is that really the value? Is that what they want? Are some of these items? And I'm finding that the more people sit down and say, some of these things we've spent money on aren't the actual value that our sponsors are looking for. And so not only have we spent money on it, it's not delivering what we think is valuable. And that's hard to sit down and audit a a sponsorships, you know, program and say, hey. We are these are these working for you anymore?

Marlys Arnold [00:26:47]: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting you bring that up. We won't go down the rabbit hole of sponsorship today, but I'm actually working on something that's gonna help with that. So

Rich Vallaster [00:26:55]: So stay tuned is what you're saying.

Marlys Arnold [00:26:57]: Stay tuned. Stay tuned. More to come on that. But, so let's shift gears a little bit. You also had an article about what's hot and what's not. So, you know, we got a few minutes left here. So just kinda let's hit on what what are some of the things that you see that are really hot right now?

Rich Vallaster [00:27:14]: Well, I mean, you we've sort of talked a little bit about it. I think there's this concept of experience, and I feel like I'm tired of saying that, but it but it's but it but it's

Marlys Arnold [00:27:24]: But but not enough people have got the message yet.

Rich Vallaster [00:27:26]: Oh, well, I did. I mean, you know, I I worry at moments that we we tend to, again, recreate what's easy, you know? And I see it on the exhibitor side. It's like, you know, there's that shift in, like, you know, you don't have to have a big booth to do something interactive. You don't have to have I mean, I'm not trying to shrink the size of booths. You know, show manager could kill me, but you know?

Marlys Arnold [00:27:47]: Well, and and I've worked with I love working with the little 10 by ten and ten by 20 foot exhibitors because we can get so creative. And some of my clients have done some really cool experiential activations in a 10 by 10 or 10 by 20. So you don't have to have this big mega booth in order to have an experience and and to do something creative and memorable. So I wish that exhibitors could just, you know, put that out of their minds that, oh, we can't possibly compete. I mean, classic example, I remember one of my exhibits that I did at a it was it was just a small regional conference. There were only a few hundred attendees, but I actually had my little 10 by 10 space right next to a, you know, household name brand company. And because I did preshow marketing and I had some creative activations and some gamification elements, I had people sometimes I would have a line of people waiting to talk to me while the household name next to me, they just stood and talked to each other because, you know Yeah. Everybody knew who they were.

Marlys Arnold [00:28:50]: They didn't really go and talk to them. You know? Maybe they came by to get their free giveaway. But it's like, do something. Activate. Make it make it fun. Make it engaging in your booth, and you will get people

Rich Vallaster [00:29:02]: in. Create an event within the event and within your booth. Yeah. I mean and that's I think that's the thing too. Sometimes we've done some analysis when you overlay a heat map with a lead scan map, and you'll see, like, you know, there's there's this, you know, little company in the back with a 10 by 10 with more lead scans than the big anchors up front. And and and it just proves that, like, yeah. Of course. It'd be a lot easier with a big anchor at the front of that kind of budget.

Rich Vallaster [00:29:28]: But here's a person with a 10 by 10 in the back of a hall that outperformed lead scanning than you did. So Yeah. You know? And I think it's also funny what you talk about. It kind of made me think about as I, you know, recall back to the article was, you know, blurring that line between show floor and education. Your example exactly. Like, hey. You know? Like, the more show organizers, you you just think of that as, you know, that blurring those lines. Like, it's we shouldn't separate that because it creates that barrier for attendees.

Marlys Arnold [00:29:57]: Yeah. Well, you had a great example you shared in that article from the American Society of Landscape Architects. So tell tell that story real quick.

Rich Vallaster [00:30:07]: Well, I mean yeah. They they not only use their show floor for education. They use their entire, you know, city. So they do adult field trips, they call them. I mean, literally so not only do they take their education in this Troflo where they take them on the road, and then they work with the sponsors and say, hey. You know, for them, it's like, we're gonna go by this park, and your benches are there. Would you like to sponsor this? You know?

Marlys Arnold [00:30:32]: I love that.

Rich Vallaster [00:30:33]: I mean, so it's like again, it's thinking that, like, you know, they also do show floor tours, and and so they allow some exhibitors to do, you know, credited sessions. And as long as it's not, you know, a pitch, we all know that. I think that's always the hesitation. Right? Oh my goodness. Someone's gonna do a pitch. Always a risk. %. I know some, you know, medical and things like that can't do it, but, you know, when you start to think about those things, that's where people get exciting.

Rich Vallaster [00:30:57]: Like, I and, personally, I gotta be honest. A lot of times, some of the exhibitors and sponsors on most of these show floors have far more in-depth and exciting content because they work across all your, you know, your industry, whatever it is. They're working with so many people. They bring such unique perspective.

Marlys Arnold [00:31:14]: Yeah. Well and I think you're doing an educational session where it's, you know, a a vendor, a a an exhibitor that has one of their clients, and they do it like a case study as the presentation. That I think attendees find fascinating because, you know, they're they're connecting with the story of the example that's being shared. They're seeing how this exhibitor helped this person, but it's not it's it's like a soft pitch. It's not in your face.

Rich Vallaster [00:31:41]: Yeah. And and back to ASLA, they they built this dog park over time. And, you know, the dog park was really sort of like an an interactive experience and not just like like a pet. Like, not not a puppy place. I mean, that those are so popular. Yeah. But this was like a dog agility park. And then, you know, one company sponsored it, and what they realized then, they went out.

Rich Vallaster [00:32:00]: And what I love is, you know, they came back and said we gotta raise the cost on this. Like, this takes up a big place on our floor. And then they said the company was like, hey. Look. That that's the top of our budget. They said, can you identify other sponsors? So now they found other noncompeting sponsors to further build out this dog park. And they're doing education and agility. They've raised more revenue.

Rich Vallaster [00:32:21]: And by the way, every exhibitor I booked that show. Every exhibitor wants to come near me the dog park. And so it's like that's again, we we blur these lines that, like, you can see you can get educated anywhere at our event. It's not just always in a classroom behind seats.

Marlys Arnold [00:32:36]: Yeah. I love, love, love that idea. I I did an article several years back for, TSNN about the, not sure I'm gonna remember, but it was, like, emergency physicians show. And so and they have, like, a a ER, basically, on the show floor and the same kind of thing. So it's an experience. People can actually see all the all the products, all the all the items that the exhibitors would be showcasing in a live real world setting. And I think I think almost every show could do that. You know? And you probably remember the article I did a long time ago about what shows could learn from IKEA.

Rich Vallaster [00:33:17]: Yeah.

Marlys Arnold [00:33:17]: You talk about controversial, boy. I had a lot of people come at me for that one, but it's like, think about it. What does IKEA do? They have rooms. They have, like, a whole little mini apartment set up with all the tags of here's all the products and here, you know, here's what we use and blah blah blah. But it's a real world example. I think virtually every show could be doing that on some level, and it's just I I think it's a totally missed opportunity.

Rich Vallaster [00:33:43]: Yeah. I was at Coverings recently, and it's, you know, eight miles of tile from all over the world. Yeah. I mean, some of those, you know, very large scale booths. I mean, our full scale homes down to details that were there's a bar of soap. You know? When you built the bathroom and you sell the tile, like, they didn't leave any detail. And you walked in these spaces, and you forgot I at moments, I forgot I was at the Orlando Convention Center. I just because I was in a house, and I was Yeah.

Rich Vallaster [00:34:10]: Feeling the tile, and and just everything was built around that. Now, again, you know, those are like like you said, every show could do it. Scale it to whatever you do and think about those experiences because that's what was memorable. Like, I completely forgot I was at a trade show for a moment, and it was wonderful.

Marlys Arnold [00:34:27]: Yeah. Well and I I was in a booth like that at the, kitchen and bath industry show this year, and they actually did a booth tour. And so they led you through. And because they were doing it that way and it wasn't just a self guided thing, they pointed out things that I probably wouldn't have picked up on just, you know, as an attendee wandering through. But it just like you said, it made it so real, so vivid. I I could see, oh, I get how this product would work in the in the real world and, you know, it's just it takes that to a whole different level. And I think, again, that's blurring the line between exhibiting and educating. And I think if more if more exhibitors and more show organizers teamed up on those kind of concepts, I mean, we could transform the whole concept of going to a trade show.

Rich Vallaster [00:35:17]: Well and you're gonna often find out I think it's where sometimes as show managers, we gotta sit down with the education team because they're hearing what are the topics, what are the things that are, you know, hot in the industry because you may not be I mean, a lot of people that work in show management, you know, are not in the industry. So when you sit down with the education team, look at the program, look at the schedule, look at what people are talking about because can that translate what, one, is something missing from the show floor because the topic, like, are there exhibitors that align to that? You know? Can you do something? I mean, you know, I'll laugh about ASLA again, but I just it's just top of mind since we're telling some good stories from there is, there is a huge rivalry between bricks and pavers. Only found this out when you talk to education managers that, like, you know, there is a big rivalry. And so, you know, that's an education component where both, you know, brick people are trying to tell you why they're you know? Well, that eventually translated into an experience on the show floor of, like, let's pit bricks against pavers. But that's that conversation with the education team that if you don't know these are the things that are hot topics, how is that translating to your show floor? Can you make experiences? So yeah. But, again, we just don't sit down with the education team sometime and look at our schedule and think, you know, how does that translate or or doesn't translate by what we have on our

Marlys Arnold [00:36:34]: show? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I love that example of the bricks versus pavers and and finding, you know, finding those little hidden gems of what the topics are that you can enhance in all different kinds of ways. So Yeah.

Rich Vallaster [00:36:47]: Rich And you and you go tell the brick paper there's more paper people, and you you know, those are the things that if if you're looking to raise revenue, find out

Marlys Arnold [00:36:53]: There you go. There you go. They're gonna they're gonna compete to who can spend the most and have the biggest presence on the show for ourselves. Rich, I love all of these great ideas, and we always have so much fun. And thank you for coming on and and sharing so everybody could hear what you know, the conversations that you and I have behind the scenes. So what's the best way for people to connect with you?

Rich Vallaster [00:37:15]: Well, you can look at myagencyevents.com. That's my day job. I also richvalser.com is my website for speaking engagements and topics. I my calendar is always there. I love to talk this topic and always appreciate, our our our conversations, our opportunity. My goal lucky my job isn't I I don't do sales. I do any of that. My job is to spend time out in the industry and share back those good knowledge, and work with great folks like you, so I appreciate it.

Marlys Arnold [00:37:43]: Well, that, you know, that pretty much sums it up. You have, like, the coolest job to get to go out and just learn things and then share things. So and I kinda do some of that too. So, anyway, thank you so much for being my guest today, and, we look forward to hearing what what other what hot what's hot and what's new things are coming down the pike. So stay tuned, everybody.

Rich Vallaster [00:38:06]: Thanks again.

Marlys Arnold [00:38:13]: If you enjoyed today's episode and would like more, you can subscribe to the Trade Show Insights podcast and automatically receive future episodes on your chosen device. Simply search for Trade Show Insights in Apple, Spotify, or virtually anywhere else that podcasts are found, then click the subscribe button. Trade Show Insights is protected by the Creative Commons copyright license. You may feel free to share this recording with colleagues or embed it on your own blog as long as it's shared in its entirety and is not used for commercial purposes. To learn more, please see the link in the sidebar of the show notes at tradeshowinsights.com. Well, that's it for this episode of Trade Show Insights. Be sure to check out our show notes and archives at tradeshowinsights.com. You can also connect with me using the social media links or the contact page on the site.

Marlys Arnold [00:39:11]: I'm Marlys Arnold. Thanks for listening, and be sure to join us next time for more tools to improve your exhibit results.